tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22301740.post8810733860977508873..comments2024-03-26T09:49:07.212-07:00Comments on The Scratching Post: Limousine LibertinesK T Cathttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10259428595745509790noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22301740.post-8205124516227994682013-02-27T06:01:10.418-08:002013-02-27T06:01:10.418-08:00Coming back to this post a while later, I find no ...Coming back to this post a while later, I find no reply from John Travolta. As expected.K T Cathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10259428595745509790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22301740.post-81878285705404379652012-03-06T07:52:35.974-08:002012-03-06T07:52:35.974-08:00I'm a little leery of drawing conclusions abou...I'm a little leery of drawing conclusions about my country from others. Demographically and culturally, we're quite different. Back to the point of the post, it seems as though the results of the libertine experiment can be found locally. If you prefer a different set of samples, try reading <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Life-Bottom-Worldview-Makes-Underclass/dp/1566635055/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1331049136&sr=1-1" rel="nofollow">Life at the Bottom</a> by Dalrymple, who is an atheist.K T Cathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10259428595745509790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22301740.post-54102082001895507582012-03-06T07:22:48.113-08:002012-03-06T07:22:48.113-08:00Yeah, but there are also plenty of examples of irr...Yeah, but there are also plenty of examples of irreligious nations that are doing just fine, e.g. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, etc.<br /><br />And are you implying that the Soviet Union collapsed precisely because it lacked religiosity in general, or your religion in specific?John Travoltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13888735386864615416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22301740.post-3359611627155287872012-03-06T06:20:24.807-08:002012-03-06T06:20:24.807-08:00John, all religions aren't the same so I'm...John, all religions aren't the same so I'm not sure what comparisons you mean. Also, in terms of big, industrialized nations collapsing, it's the atheist nations that have struggled the most with that. See also: Union, Soviet.K T Cathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10259428595745509790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22301740.post-11873391633626803662012-03-05T22:06:46.086-08:002012-03-05T22:06:46.086-08:00If lack of religion is truly the root cause of so ...If lack of religion is truly the root cause of so many of the problems our society faces, shouldn't it be the case that the most irreligious nations in the world are also the ones with the most problems, lowest quality of life, etc.? Because it seems that, in many cases, the exact opposite is true.John Travoltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13888735386864615416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22301740.post-12312395807989604382012-03-05T16:00:29.368-08:002012-03-05T16:00:29.368-08:00Kelly, that's a great point. It goes along wit...Kelly, that's a great point. It goes along with the statistical data that shows that our current libertine self-destruction is relatively young - younger than the construction of those churches, perhaps. We've only been doing this full-on self immolation for 40 years or so.K T Cathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10259428595745509790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22301740.post-22383127192766760042012-03-05T15:12:01.379-08:002012-03-05T15:12:01.379-08:00Yeah, that's weird, isn't it? It's lik...<i>Yeah, that's weird, isn't it? It's like people wanted to embark on missionary campaigns, but can't quite get the natives to sign on.</i><br /><br />I think its more likely that the particular churches are simply in decline. I've lived places where the population has shifted enough so that a large number of the churches had barely barely functioning congregations. They don't close because there are barely enough people to keep them going. Alternatively, the population may have shifted from traditional denominations to non-denominational churches. Some of the non-denominational churches near us service over 10K people in a weekend, while others never get past the low single digits.Kelly the little black doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15056007606676004685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22301740.post-11188178936687282552012-03-05T10:04:57.767-08:002012-03-05T10:04:57.767-08:00Still, churches don't build, maintain, and sta...<i>Still, churches don't build, maintain, and staff themselves. The fact that they exist, means that *somebody* felt strongly enough to build them and keep them running</i><br /><br />Yeah, that's weird, isn't it? It's like people wanted to embark on missionary campaigns, but can't quite get the natives to sign on.K T Cathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10259428595745509790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22301740.post-13663395476257244132012-03-05T09:29:28.777-08:002012-03-05T09:29:28.777-08:00I have a nitpick on your final comment, "shel...I have a nitpick on your final comment, "shell out the roughly $12,000 in per capita taxes it takes to run the Federal government."<br /><br />The link you provide is to a year-old posting. Today's number is probably higher than $12,000.<br /><br />And that figure is for government spending, not revenues (taxes). The per capita taxation is a lot lower because we're running huge deficits.tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22301740.post-20767819151605938362012-03-05T09:00:58.375-08:002012-03-05T09:00:58.375-08:00"Churches are buildings, just like police sta..."Churches are buildings, just like police stations. The number of such buildings is probably not a good indicator of the behavior of the populace."<br /><br />That could easily be true, especially in a city where the population has been plummeting due to people moving away - I agree that it is possible that all those churches are starved for members and nobody actually goes to them any more.<br /><br />Still, churches don't build, maintain, and staff themselves. The fact that they exist, means that *somebody* felt strongly enough to build them and keep them running. So their presence does mean *something*, it's just a question of exactly what.tim eiselehttp://somethingscrawlinginmyhair.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22301740.post-58642208957845873212012-03-05T08:18:42.188-08:002012-03-05T08:18:42.188-08:00One more thing, Tim. If you went to Benton Harbor ...One more thing, Tim. If you went to Benton Harbor and built 84 Mathnasium franchises, would you then be able to say that it was obvious the city's problems could not be traced to a lack of mathematical knowledge?K T Cathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10259428595745509790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22301740.post-24507734574500728062012-03-05T08:15:26.680-08:002012-03-05T08:15:26.680-08:00Addendum:
It looks to me like Benton Harbor certa...Addendum:<br /><br /><i>It looks to me like Benton Harbor certainly has enough religion</i><br /><br />As a Catholic, we are taught that the people are the church, not the buildings. I question your assertion that Benton Harbor has enough religion. To my definition, this is most certainly not the case.K T Cathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10259428595745509790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22301740.post-61176516812862334802012-03-05T08:13:49.132-08:002012-03-05T08:13:49.132-08:00Churches are buildings, just like police stations....Churches are buildings, just like police stations. The number of such buildings is probably not a good indicator of the behavior of the populace. If I had some time, I'd pick some quite town in, say, Nebraska, and see how many churches they have there. My bet is that there would be almost no correlation between the number of buildings called "churches" and the behavior of the people.K T Cathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10259428595745509790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22301740.post-86836846948192920722012-03-05T07:13:48.732-08:002012-03-05T07:13:48.732-08:00Whoops, I dropped a line from that previous commen...Whoops, I dropped a line from that previous comment: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benton_Harbor" rel="nofollow">The census population of Benton Harbor proper is only 10,038</a>.tim eiselehttp://somethingscrawlinginmyhair.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22301740.post-23284459685657049292012-03-05T07:11:21.389-08:002012-03-05T07:11:21.389-08:00I don't know what (if anything) this actually ...I don't know what (if anything) this actually means, but it did seem odd:<br /><br />According to <a href="http://www.usachurch.com/michigan/benton_harbor/churches.htm" rel="nofollow">this site</a>, in Benton Harbor proper there are 51 churces. Of these, there are 20 Baptist churches, a smattering of other denominations, and zero Catholic churches.<br /><br />For comparison, the population within 5 miles of where I live is about 12,000, and there are evidently only 17 churches in that area (mostly Lutheran and Catholic). So Benton Harbor has more Baptist churches per person, than we have *total* churches per person. And this is far from an irreligious town.<br /><br />It looks to me like Benton Harbor certainly has enough <i>religion </i> that you would think they could maintain "Victorian morals", but maybe the Baptist churches are far less effective for this than other churches?tim eiselehttp://somethingscrawlinginmyhair.comnoreply@blogger.com